Tyranny of the Valley
The Tea Party, alive and well in Noe Valley:
Unfortunately for the screamers, many in Noe Valley do want to try a temporary plaza. And the volume that this hysterical naysaying minority goes to against a temporary, reversible plaza tells me one thing — it is a good idea and will make Noe Valley a better place.
But I am most disappointed in Bevan Dufty. You let decibels shut down debate. You should be ashamed.
From an open letter to Bevan from Noe Valley resident Mike Underhill:
“Many of us went to last night’s meeting so that we could listen, learn and participate in this experiment we call representative democracy. What we saw and were forced to endure was instead a staged, choreographed, and role-assigned Tea Party-style, Fox News and town hall ‘meeting’ inspired takeover of a public forum by the “No Plaza” screamers, shouters and their organizers. Not only were the meeting’s sponsors (you, among others) shouted down, but citizens like myself were told to “shut up,” sworn at, and called various names that don’t merit repeating. The very fact that you even publicly referred to how it would appear if the police were called says it all.
But what troubles me most: it worked…”
“So I’ll end with three questions: What kind of leader are you and what kind of leader do you want to be? How will you respond to a small band of screamers who act like little more than grown-up bullies? And most importantly, will you lead on our behalf?”
Noe Plaza: Just try it! You might like it. Sign the petition here.
And Antiplazanistas: Your reaction makes it seem like all of 24th from Church to Castro will be one long, giant greenspace. (You’re just lucky I don’t turn it into a canal.)
Burrito Justice 
Last night was absolutely pathetic. I’m pretty sure I was the youngest person there (or at least close to it), and I decided the way I should go was just being quiet, listening, and speaking with my applause and politeness. After one of Bevan’s speeches, I clapped along with the other supporters, and a 50-something guy next to me told me, quote, to “shut the fuck up”. I’m not terribly good at confrontation, so I just ignored it – but seriously, guys? THIS is the showing you want to put up?
I can’t even believe they posted that video. If I saw myself portrayed in that way, I would be so ashamed that I’d probably burn the damn camera. But I’m so delighted that they did post it. It’s made for fun office circulation today.
I couldn’t agree more, Jen. NIMBYs are a true embarrassment to the city and should be ashamed of their horrid antics.
Look, no matter where one comes down on this stuff, it is very frustrating for people who happen to actually live at the place (not a few miles from the place) to deal with the way this stuff happens in our town.
Anyone who has ever lived in the midst of someone else’s scheme knows exactly what I’m talking about.
Just because they are old, and old school, doesn’t mean they aren’t justified in being really pissed. The fact is, that if the people behind this had tried to engage and befriend and otherwise just respect the people who happen to live right on top of it. things could have gone differently.
I for one wouldn’t propose cutting a rose from my mother’s front yard without talking to her 1st. The planning process is this:
Someone from outside comes in with a thing against roses.
Proposes all rose busies be replaced with gardenias.
Gets a few planning hacks looking for something to do other than watch porn on board.
Planning holds “meetings” totally rigged to push for gardenias, and then splits all the rose lovers off into groups to “discuss.”
And voila! Gardenias.
Its that gross process crap that turns people’s little worlds into someone else’s “process.” And whether the outcome is something I am for or not, its still gross.
And especially gross to see old folks upset.
“I for one wouldn’t propose cutting a rose from my mother’s front yard without talking to her 1st.”
But that’s not quite the right analogy. We can all agree that roses are nice and that you can’t just cut somebody else’s roses on their own private property. But streets are entirely different because 1) they are public property, and 2) as they are currently implemented in our car-centric society, they prefer one mode of transportation (the car) over all others (namely walking, cycling, and public transit). You seem to imply that the status quo (allowing cars on Noe at the proposed plaza site) is somehow nice like a rose. But many feel that the last 60 or so years of cars dominating our cities needs to come to an end not just because they are unsustainable (though that is reason in itself), but because they are unhealthy for their occupants (they are major contributor to heart disease, the #1 killer in the US), pedestrians, and cyclists. Also, they have destroyed the quiet of our cities (a major factor in “livability”) and the tend to have a dehumanizing effect on people since you can hide behind an anonymous hunk of steel which decreases empathy and communication with others.
So again, you seem to assume that the status quo is somehow equivalent to a rose on someone’s private property, but that’s incorrect. The status quo is more equivalent to someone blasting their stereo on their own private property which negatively effects everybody else.
“Just Try it…You Might Like It” but what if you don’t? Who are you trying to kid, just because “TEMPORARY” is put in when discussins this project doesn’t make it so espcially when dealing with The City. After spending all the money they did on Guerrero Plaza there was no way they were going to keep they’re word and leave it on a trial basis. Plenty of neighbors didn’t want it but nobody wants hear from them. The ONLY meeting that was setup to discuss the pros and cons of the plaza that EVERYONE was invited to and they didn’t let anyone voice their opinion if it was in any way negative…the exact words were “we’re not discussing that”.
Cuddos to Taco_Truth, you’ve hit the nail on the head! That’s EXACTLY how many of the neighbors in front of Guerrero Plaza feel. And it’s still continuing, neighbors living around the corner and 2blks away have more say than I do about the plaza and my front door opens onto the plaza!
Here’s the kicker in all this, I LIKE Guerrero Plaza BUT I do not like the politics associated with it, the method that was used in putting it together, the underhandedness that is still going on regarding it and the total disregard of anyone that doesn’t see eye to eye with the powers that be, i.e., Gillian Gillett, Andres Powers and Gavin Newsom.
Thanks taco_truth and smrod15 for your comments. I completely agree. Any of us who are against the plaza, for many valid reasons are immediately vilified and called names: “the no crowd”, “the old people” and on and on.
Those supporting the plaza are equally loud shouting and guilty of pushing their single agenda on others. The Guerrero plaza was not endorsed by many residents actually on that street, but still it was pushed on them by strongly vocal plaza supporters.
Many of us would be more than willing to discuss the plaza or other solutions, but the plaza supports are dogmatic in just one solution: their solution. That perhaps is the biggest turnoff to this whole process. And some of the pro-plaza people, especially one the local bike advocates is especially harassing, relentlessly wanting us to live just like him and his “holier than you” lifestyle. Truly a turn-off.
I will continue to be vocal and protest strongly against this ill conceived plaza, that many Noe neighbors do NOT want, for many valid reasons. We have made our reasons very clear. We are not negative people. We are not “no” people. In fact we are strongly part of the YES crowd.
YES. KEEP NOE STREET OPEN.
Thank you.
Are you proud of that video?
I have yet to hear a single coherent argument (that is not self-serving) against trying the plaza. All I see is a minority who don’t like it and are going to any and every length to keep a trial from happening, painting it as a nefarious government scheme. Sorry that I can’t respect the hyperbole.
But my favorite comment so far is from this blog:
“The general opinion among opponents was that “the bicycle coalition”—a loose affiliation of Greens, Gays, and Government Insiders—have made it their aim to turn San Francisco into a car-free city.”
More salient commentary is over at SFist and SocketSite.
Dearest JO — blogger of things you readers enjoy reading about — when your own readers express respectfully their fury at having things shoved down their driveways, you should respect that.
If someone proposed something in front of your house that you didn’t feel comfortable with, you might just find friends among us.
As for the random anti-gay reference, well, that’s just playing the Hitler card in commentary, as far as I, a gay man, am concerned.
TT, I feel like I can have a discussion with you and we can respectfully disagree, and perhaps even come to a compromise. Unfortunately that’s not the case with many (most?) of those opposing the plaza.
I have to wonder what the response would be if the city suggested putting in a stoplight at that intersection.
You are an embarrassment to this city as a result of your emotionally-fueled, out of control behavior. I’m mortified watching this video.
I’ll take some government spending to improve quality of life in my neighborhood, District 11, you whiney little bitches.
Me! Me! Mine! It’s all about Me! Public right of way is MY PARKING! Me, me, me. Fuck everyone else. I’ve got mine and now I’m closing the door behind me. It’s all MINE!
Hey JO: ( i sorta like that name)..guess what? I’m a gay man and somewhat offended by the comment, but I’ll let it go…they prob didn’t mean to offend.
But I may be gay, and I support “green” living, within reason, but I’m not a gov’t insider, nor am a I hardcore bike nut.
As for the stop light idea, I mentioned that to Andres Power of the planning dept and Bevan Dufty months ago..It would be a possible solution to some of the traffic/ped issues, but a stoplight could cost “several hundred thousand”..Prob not the best way to spend money.
I would LOVE a stop light put in @ the interesection of Guerrero and San Jose, maybe my 3 kids and I would than be able to cross the street without constantly being in fear of getting run over! But a better solution, in the eyes of the City, was to put a plaza in the middle of the street…how this is supposed to help pedistrians is beyond me. Trust me, I live here and cross the street here and having the plaza has in NO WAY helped with traffic. People are still driving at the same rate of speed that they were before but now they can take their eyes off the road to look at our pretty trees, yeah that’s a plus…NOT!
For those of you who think we’re selfish and whiney, I hope one day you too will have the pleasure of having someone who doesn’t even live on your block decide what they want in front of your house and you won’t have a say in the matter.
For the record, I have had disscussions with Andres Powers and find that he justs tells you what you want to hear but basically he’s just a middle man. I’ve TRIED to have discussions with Gillian Gillett but she just runs away sticks her head in the sand and lets someone else do the talking.
I’d love a light there too. The light at Guerrero and Duncan has helped, hard to imagine it not being there.
I’m much more comfortable walking along that stretch of San Jose with the park there. I saw too many cars shoot down San Jose before.
Yes, I agree smrod15..the traffic still flies by at pretty fast speed on Guerrero near the plaza. It has done nothing in the way of traffic calming.
By the way, I went by the Guerrero plaza 4 different times over the long weekend. I saw exactly 3 people using it, or walking thru it on various days. Since it’s pretty windy down there, it simply is not used.
The same thing will be happening at the proposed Noe plaza.
Seriously? Better shut down all the parks in the city then.
@ rocky’sdad, I know what you mean. I’m right in front of this plaza (unlike some who’ve commmented) and there’s not alot of activity here. Once in a while we get people coming and enjoying the weather in the plaza with their families but mostly it’s people walking there dogs there, people hanging out drinking, we even have our own homeless guy that now sleeps there every so often, people smoking pot and kids trying to play with the basketball hoop that some bright spark decided to put in…now I got to be aware of errant balls hitting my car. Definitely not enough activity to have warranted this mess. But hey what do I know I only live here…I’m probably just being a whiny bitch.
So, are these parks bad because a) they aren’t used enough, or b) will be used too much. So confusing!
And for the record I just walked by GP and three kids were playing basketball (in the wind.) Good or bad?
“Since it’s pretty windy down there, it simply is not used.”
“Down there”
We wouldn’t want those people in the flats, down there, to have any public space.
“windy”
I love your simplistic style of logic johnnyo: it’s all about “all or nothing”…brilliant.
@tired: seriously? you’re here to define the meaning of words that someone else says? I suppose I could have said “up there” if I was coming from say..lower mission.. does that make you feel better? You’re the one using the words “those people”…not me.
yea, windy is…well…windy. should I define that for you too?
what a bunch of bs you spout.
and sfmrod15: I hear you. I agree.
Actually I was being sarcastic. You’re obviously the master of the “all or nothing” argument.
You make it sound like the wind on top of Twin Peaks or Chicago in winter. Yet there is consistent foot traffic on 24th, especially on weekends. Sorry but I just don’t buy your wind argument.
yea, sure..You sure you were being sarcastic..or just back pedaling now? (not sure you can do that on a fixie)
As for the wind, check it out for yourself then. Noe Valley at times can be as windy if not more so than Twin Peaks. It can be ferocious..Try sitting at the corner of Noe/24th and read a paper while sipping your latte…NO, not ALL the time, but a lot of the time. SF is a windy city…and way MORE than chicago..
Foot traffic is not the same as sitting down in a windy plaza, trying to pretend you’re outside some cafe in the South of France..cause ya aint.
Please see comments above. You and I are not going to agree on this, just like we don’t agree on Noe being “a major road”, and other points ad nauseum.
Once again, if you are so certain, you should have nothing to fear with a trial plaza. (And yes, I can pretty much predict what your next comment will be.)
I grew up by the Guerrero st. park-let and I have to say that it is an improvement. The whole street is just much nicer with all of the new plants that have been put there over the past few years. What was before a pretty grey area has livened up a bit. It may not be a magnet for people to flock to, but I have spent time hanging out there and just enjoy walking down there on the way to Mitchel’s much more now.
omg johnnyo!..quick! tell me what my next comments gonna be.
I love people who can predict the future.:)
Wanna come over and play with my Ouija board?
I was hoping you’d claim Noe was a major thoroughfare. You haven’t said that one in a while.
oh, JO…you can do better than that. sounds like you’re kinda thin today on cool things to say.
Given your current signal to noise ratio, I’m just waiting for something meaningful to respond to.
The Guerrero/San Jose parklet has been a blessing. We live right across from it. It definitely has cut down traffic zooming down San Jose street. I feel it was the best use of a patch of concrete that served no purpose.
Contrary to some other reports, I have seen the park being used every single day – staff from CPMC taking a little break during lunch, on sunny days, people soaking up the sun, dad and kid enjoying basketball, little children exploring the varied plants (there aren’t too many but enough to keep them engaged).
I did not know this neighborhood had so many kids until this little parklet was created. Agreed that when its really windy out there- you wont find people using the park that much BUT I have seen some kids enjoy basketball no matter what.
It certainly is a great park and if only everyone could come together, would be a nice place for all neighbors to hang out and get to know each other.
You forgot to list the people that come hang out and drink at night, the people that sit there and smoke pot, the drunks or homeless people that get released from the hospital and come sit on my stairs and leave their trash and you must’ve missed the day when 3 teenagers came with a drill to get the cover off the basketball hoop. I guess you don’t live that close that it would affect you so it’s okay.
There’s no denying that it’s a nice place BUT the means in which were used to put this PLAZA (it’s not a park people!!!) in has left a very sour taste in many peoples mouths and unfortunately no matter how many nice flowers there are there’s too many bad feelings surrounding it for most to enjoy.
As for it helping with traffic, maybe you’d like to come cross the street with me and my 3 kids cause you seem to have luck for having traffic stop for you.
If you (Gillian, Andres or Newsom) wanted something that would bring the neighborhood together than maybe the whole neighborhood should have been included and not just the ones that agreed with the plaza.
Just because it’s pleasing to the eye doesn’t make it a good thing.
But don’t you know that right across from it doesn’t count in terms of being able to voice your opinion? Only if your door opens right onto it do you have the privilege of getting to express a valid opinion about it.
LOL..why the hell wait JO? just tell me what I’m gonna say next….at least you’re good at that..
Well said smrod15:Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I’m sorry the plaza has resulted in some of the problems you mentioned.
This is a good example of the City, Planning Dept. and others not listening enough to opposing views, and especially those residents most affected by this plaza.
this is a perfect example of a part of the process that has NOT been pursued, with regard to the Noe plaza.
Yes – there are homeless guys and drinkers in the neighborhood. Call SFPD non-emergency at (415) 553-0123. I live around the corner. After a couple of visits they get the message and move elsewhere.
The kids with the drill – that’s not cool.
Yes there should be a light at that intersection. But at least we have one at Duncan, and lets not forget reduction from 3 lanes to 2 lanes.
In my mind the state of the intersection before the plaza was a failure of planning. I’m sorry you feel you weren’t included and your concerns were ignored. But the park is a unique opportunity and the neighborhood is a better place for it. I’m hoping we can continue to improve it together. I think things are headed in the right direction.
@smrod15: In case you did not read the comment, I do live pretty close to it. As far as crossing the 28th and guerrero intersection, plaza or no plaza, that was always a problem. YOu always had to wait for the traffic to yield to pedestrians.
Regarding the issue of homeless people, ppl smoking pot, drinking, those issues were there plaza or no plaza…people abused that triangular piece of concrete. I think if you happen to see anything like this, call the police. I have always done so whenever I saw a homeless person camp at the plaza. The cops would come and ask them to move. This significantly helped and I have not really seen homeless people camping out. The only time I see them is friday early mornings – when its trash day on san jose and they used to be there when this was not a park and continue to do so.
@ johnnyo, been there done that and have to continue to do that, alot of good it does…believe it or not most times the cops don’t come or come and leave without doing anything. Living around the corner really does not compare to living right in front. You’re right the PLAZA (still not a park people) would be a unique opportunity for everyone to come together BUT nobody wants to hear any of the issues that alot of us have. The issue with the turn around has never been addressed, how many times do people have to have their houses hit? People are so busy trying to prove that they have the right of way that they’re not even courteous anymore. My kids can’t play outside our own house without scooter and bike riders from the park leaking over onto our street and nearly running them over. No sorries or excuse mes just “well my daddy says this is a park so I can ride here!”.
Most of the time the street cleaners don’t come through when we complain we get told that the planning dept is responsible since they blocked the street, complain to the planning dept and they’ll see what they can do…it’s a no win situation. It was my constant harrasing of Andres Powers that got the trash can put in but did anyone back me up? NO, I was told the other neighbors thought it wasn’t necessary and would encourage dumping…HELLOOOOOO there’s always been a problem with dumping here putting in a trash can wasn’t going to instigate it.
@ annonymous, in case you didn’t read my earlier comments I live right in front of the plaza not just pretty close. For your information we did not have the same problems we have now BEFORE the plaza went in so either your lying or embelishing, don’t know which.
Your right the intersection has always been a problem but to quote you “It has cut down on the traffic zooming down San Jose Street” so I was pointing out that in fact there’s still a problem with vehicles at the intersection of San Jose, Guerrero & 28th. Now if your refereing to cars coming from 29th street down San Jose Ave than your right, there’s no more zooming cars just zooming byciclist that think a closed road = they’re own private roadway. Sorry if I have a problem with byciclist (or anyone on the road) not following the rules of the road especially as a pedestrian with 3 small children that has to cross here frequently.
@smrod15: I do wish more people would listen to what you’ve been saying. I agree with you and support your comments fully.
In many ways that Guerrero plaza has not been much of a success, given your direct experience living in front of it. All the more reason, among many why we challenge and question the importance of the proposed Noe plaza. Many of the issues you mentioned have not been discussed or address on Noe St.
We have continually offered many alternate solutions to the Noe St. closure. While I’m all for creating some additional outdoor seating and green space, there are many other locations to achieving that without closing a street.
Rockysad, let me put this in terms you would understand: as Ronald Reagan would say, “there you go again”.
Guerrero Park has made the neighborhood nicer and safer. While I am sorry that smrod doesn’t appreciate it, I do not feel that his/her objections are representative or reason to not to proceed with pedestrian plazas.
The only thing you have offered is delay and deception. I have yet to hear a reasonable objection from you on a *trial* plaza. You are simply afraid that people might like it.
Oh, and despite it being foggy and windy this Saturday, 24th street was packed and there were people drinking coffee and reading newspapers outside.
I’ve lived across the street from Guerrero Park for two years. It is an improvement over the 6 cars that smrod/rodfam1 parked there illegally before Guerrero Park. Smrod should use her garage to park at least one of her cars; and what is that thing hanging from Daddy’s Suburban – a possum tail?
@ from above the cafe – funny that you know me so well but don’t know that I HAVE NEVER owned 6 cars, is this some more lies told by those that put in the park? As for my garage, I don’t have one, funny that you don’t know that either. And living above the cafe is NOT the same as living where I’m at. Get it straight BEFORE you jump on the bandwagon.
But seriously, since you seem to know me so well anytime you see me out there and wanna talk come and introduce yourself. I’ve nothing to hide as you should know since you know my car by it’s plates. I’d love to put a face to the name with you as well.
FYI there’s no suburban and he ain’t my daddy but I’ll let him know you’d like to talk to him. That is if you care to step up and slam him to his face.
This is how BEATIFUL this plaza is. A year ago I didn’t know “from above the cafe” and know here were are having such lovely converstations. I’ve never had so many people try to tell me how to live my life, what I can and can’t do. Silly me I thought my life was mine to live as I pleased and if there were consequences than I would pay them but it seems everyone that even lives remotely close to this plaza can tell me what to do….ya the plaza has really helped our neighborhood/community.
smrod, so how many cars *do* you have?
Ask “from above the cafe” apparently they know me better than I know myself.
And just an FYI, I never said I didn’t “appreciate” the plaza as you posted somewhere on here. What I don’t appreciate is the tactics used in getting the plaza put in or the tactics still being used. I don’t appreciate the lies, I don’t appreciate the harrassment, I don’t appreciate the vandalism and I don’t appreciate others who feel it their right to tell me how to live.
I have a mind and I have a voice, listen to what I have to say and maybe we can come to some kind of agreement but when you push things on people without giving them an equal voice you just end up with anger and resentment.
I have no problems listening to others but in turn I want to be listened to. Just because you (that’s a general you) don’t agree with me doesn’t make me wrong and vice versa.
As I’ve said before I’ve dealt with Andres and with Gillian (thru her husband) and all I get is lip service. They don’t want to listen to anything because they already have an agenda of what they want to do and that’s what I don’t APPRECIATE.
Ok, and there YOU go again..same old covering your ears and not listening.
I don’t think the Guerrero Park has made the neighborhood appreciably nice and safer..safer? yea, tell that to smrod15. I believe them. Too bad you don’t feel their comments mean anything. more dismissive attitude on your part.
Didn’t realize I had so much power as to “delay” anything. I’m one voice of many. You obviously have not read my extensive comments and objections over many months…read them again and educate yourself.
Yea, it was foggy and windy last weekend..so what? People hung out, had coffee, read the paper..without the need for a street closure and a silly, useless plaza.
Check out all the NEW DON’T CLOSE NOE signs popping up on other nearby streets. Lot’s of objections, lots of other valid opinions.
You should listen and read once in a while.
“Covering your ears and not listening”: kind of like your tea party friends at the meeting, eh?
I admire you for your consistency though — apparently evidence need not apply to your side of the argument.
You are the best advertisement for a plaza there possibly is. Please keep doing what you’re doing!
well, ok JO…continuing to bring up the word tea party in your childish rants, much like the tahoesmurf does is..well…meaningless.
So, I get it that you want to close Noe St. for a plaza. I don’t..as well as many others. We are discussing and open to many other alternatives. You should try thinking outside the box once in a while. Expand your mind. Don’t limit your possibilities to one location only.
thanks for supporting my consistency…might be worth your time to also begin to understand all the previous commentaries regarding the downside of the street closure.. unless you’re just a one note type of guy.
I swear you’re ELIZA. But you’re starting to fail the Turing Test.
Sorry dude. I’m not Eliza..
Just an educated and opinionated NV resident offering my point of view. Don’t like it? too bad.
So now we know the Noe plaza is not gonna happen..announced today…the cute little plywood parklets may pop up on 24th St. I can live with those.
Now, let’s move on to the really big idea of turning the parking lot on 24th st, into a permanent Noe Valley plaza for everyone..
well, except for whiny babies in strollers.:)
catch ya later.
ELIZA, an AI denying that they’re an AI is a sure sign they’re an AI. How do you feel about that?
So we’re moving forward with parklets first. (Ahh, plywood — I see what you’re doing there. Cute!)
Anyway, I look forward to you contributing your sturm und drang to help raise the $3-4 million necessary to buy the parking lot.